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Matt Cloud's avatar

Did Oswald work in the U-2 program in 1957-'58? If so, he is, by definition, CIA.

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Cory's avatar

Oswald was with a Marine unit at Atsugi in 1957, where the U-2 was located. He knew Francis Gary Powers. But he was a low-level Marine, showed no special interest in the U-2 and was there for only a couple of months.

This is 2 years before Powers was shot down.

When Oswald went to the Soviet Union the KGB interrogated him on the U-2 experience and ascertained he knew nothing.

So there is no evidence he was CIA and this is all years before the assassination. Again no concrete evidence anyone in the CIA ever worked with Oswald - ever.

BTW- Donald Bellisario, creator of Quantum Leap, served with Oswald. When his son expressed doubt about 'Oswald being the assassin, Bellisario, based on his Marxism and attitude in the Marines, basically told his son I guarantee you he did it.

'I'm convinced Oswald acted alone. He was an obsessed fanatic. I understood how sick he was. We fired the same weapons and went through the same training. He knew how to handle a rifle, just as I did. Being in the same outfit, we had the same knowledge.

'We were both sharpshooters. And yes, he could easily have racked off three rounds well within the time limit. Not a doubt in my mind. So could I. He had a four-power scope -- from here across the street. We fired those weapons at 500 yards with an open peepsight to qualify.

'Paul Murphy, a guy from our outfit who served with Oswald in Japan for a year, knew him well. He had lunch with me recently and I asked him honestly who he thought shot JFK. He said, 'Without a doubt it was that little S.O.B. He was a weasel. I was there when he shot himself with a derringer to escape being transferred. He did 30 days for that.'

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Matt Cloud's avatar

That's the official story, yes, which depends on KGB assertions that "he knew nothing." The official story also says Butterfield was never CIA either.

McMahon/Moynihan certainly took pride in the '60 downing of Powers, and the disruption of the Eisenhower-Krushchev summit, ensuring that it was recorded in the time capsule at the new building in Langley. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/cia-rdp88g00186r000800950010-3

And Epstein, a close confident of Moynihan, suggested otherwise regarding Oswald:

https://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,919345,00.html

Epstein "weaves a skein of circumstantial evidence suggesting that Oswald learned key performance data on the CIA's U-2 plane while serving as a Marine radar controller at Atsugi, Japan, in 1957, and that he provided information to the Soviets either then or upon his defection to Russia in 1959. Oswald's information, the book suggests, enabled the Soviets to redesign their rocket-guidance systems so as to knock CIA Pilot Gary Powers out of the air over the Soviet Union on May 1, 1960."

The significance of these events is that by October 1962, CIA with NRO, had a monopoly on overhead reconnaissance, having displaced the USAF thanks to Harold Talbott (uncle of Strobe Talbott of TIME and more recently Broookings and the Steele Dossier), by which they (the CIA) could scare the bejesus out of presidents and the world with, yes, inflated threats of nuclear annihilation.

https://nypost.com/2021/11/08/turley-calls-brookings-institution-steele-dossier-nexus/

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Cory's avatar

OK, look at what you are actually saying.

circumstantial evidence of things that happened years before - not hard evidence of anything to do with the assassination. Nothing. Zip.

But Benefit of doubt - they are true.

Oswald was working against the government - not for the CIA. Providing info to the Soviets is not what the CIA did.

And how exactly does this tie him to the CIA in a conspiracy to kill JFK?

Who from the CIA worked with him?

When?

How?

Why did a sworn enemy of the US work with the CIA in the first place and why would the CIA trust him?

Not only is there no evidence but it makes no sense in the assassination.

but th most important thing is - no hard evidence.

I know the CIA are such masterminds they could leave no evidence and even allow Oswald to be captured knowing he wouldn't talk.

think about what you are saying - and that's all with the benefit fo the doubt based on circumstantial evidence.

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Matt Cloud's avatar

Slow down, take it piece by piece. Consider your assumptions. It's a big story but you'll get there.

Ask specific questions and you will get specific answers.

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Cory's avatar

Hard evidence that someone with the CIA worked with Oswald in the week (three days) before the assassination.

In fact - no one knew Oswald and JFK would even be in the same city until five weeks before the assassination. The trip was determined on October 1, the day or so when he was laving Mexico City . He did not get a job at the Book Depository until two weeks later. And even then it was no guarantee he would get the job or stay at the job. So how did the CIA fix all this without a trace?

And why did they let him be captured by the Dallas PD?

There are no answers with any evidence for this.

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Matt Cloud's avatar

You're straying into histrionics and missing over fifty years of research on the subject.

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Matt Cloud's avatar

Are you related to Earl Warren or something? What gives? You're spouting off like it's 1964.

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Cory's avatar

And this isn't just about the Assassination.

It's about theories without facts, and misinformation.

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Cory's avatar

I'm spouting off with facts.

So far no one has quoted a single piece of hard evidence supporting a CIA conspiracy or disproving Oswald as the lone gunman.

fifty years of research and not a single piece of evidence regarding the actual crime. that should bother you.

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COMMISSO's avatar

If you watch the Zapruder film in very slow motion, you will see that as the bullet that killed JFK hit him,a narrow plume of what appears to be blood and perhaps other liquid ejects from his head in an upward direction and about 45 degrees to his right front.

Which tells me that the vector force of the bullet that hit him and caused t this ejected plume came from one of only two possible directions. Either from his left rear below his head and heading in an upward trajectory, or from his front right above his head heading in a downward trajectory.

Oswald's alleged perch inthe book depository does not conform with either of these two places where the shot could have come from. The only way the shot could have come from JFK's left rear is if there was a gunman in the open space to the left of the motorcade, which is highly unlikely as the shooter would have been seen. The only other possible place for the shot to have originated was behind the wall of the grassy knoll.

Which means that Oswald could not have been the only shooter. Whatever group planned the attack was the group that enlisted Oswald, if Oswald was even part of the plot. And to maintain plausible deniability if Oswald talked before he could be silenced, whoever enlisted Oswald likely did not reveal to him the true identity of the group, and used some alias to identify who they were.

Which means Oswald could possibly have been working with the Agency without ever knowing it.

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Matt Cloud's avatar

Give me one fact -- one fact -- that you have spouted that isn't your mere assertion that "there are no facts."

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Matt Cloud's avatar

Skip ahead to 1975 with Team B and the neocons who would get Reagan into office in 80. Wash, rinse, repeat.

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Matt Cloud's avatar

And see my comment above re Oswald as an Angleton dangle.

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